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It is good or not?

lafountain

By lafountain
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LAK74 Rookie

LAK74

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The LaFontaine looks good to me.

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SuperTheGreat Newbie

SuperTheGreat

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Thanks for the link to the other forum on the Avs jerseys, Mike. I thought the tail tagging was wrong on those when I saw the listings. Nice to have information from knowledgeable collectors to confirm.

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SuperTheGreat Newbie

SuperTheGreat

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Yeah, you're right. DA didn't start kiss cutting until Reebok came in, I believe. Definitely didn't do it on Starters. That there is your indicator: bogus.

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enzo269 Newbie

enzo269

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Yeah, you're right. DA didn't start kiss cutting until Reebok came in, I believe. Definitely didn't do it on Starters. That there is your indicator: bogus.

Although that ebays guy's jersey definitely has incorrect tagging for the year he says the jersey is, are you sure about your statement about kiss cut never being on Avs Starter gamer jerseys????..

My 1996-97 Deadmarsh gamer is kiss cut, (unless of course, I am mistaking what true kiss cut lettering is) and it seems as though the customizer (assuming DA) back in those days could have inlaid (KissCut) numbers on the sleeves only, on the back only, on both, or not at all. Taken from one of the leading Avs collectors page.. Eddie Olson... See for yourself.

www.eddiesjerseyroom.com

Here is a photo of my 1996-97 Deadmarsh gamer

photoquj.jpg

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Kaiser416 Newbie

Kaiser416

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From that reference:

In 97-98, the inlaid number layering introduced in 96-97 was the standard configuration. Instead of the traditional top-to-bottom layering, the new construction featured the main portion of the number on the bottom, with the outer two colors raised even with each other, for an inlaid effect.

Looks like kiss cut for that jersey was correct.

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SuperTheGreat Newbie

SuperTheGreat

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Although that ebays guy's jersey definitely has incorrect tagging for the year he says the jersey is, are you sure about your statement about kiss cut never being on Avs Starter gamer jerseys????..

My 1996-97 Deadmarsh gamer is kiss cut, (unless of course, I am mistaking what true kiss cut lettering is) and it seems as though the customizer (assuming DA) back in those days could have inlaid (KissCut) numbers on the sleeves only, on the back only, on both, or not at all. Taken from one of the leading Avs collectors page.. Eddie Olson... See for yourself.

www.eddiesjerseyroom.com

From that reference:

In 97-98, the inlaid number layering introduced in 96-97 was the standard configuration. Instead of the traditional top-to-bottom layering, the new construction featured the main portion of the number on the bottom, with the outer two colors raised even with each other, for an inlaid effect.

Looks like kiss cut for that jersey was correct.

Well, I am by no means an expert on the lineage of Avs jerseys and will happily defer to those with more knowledge and info. I pretty much know almost enough to be dangerous and definitely enough to think I know more than I do. But here's the information I have always had, taken straight from Denver Athletic: I've been told by Nate at DA that when a customer comes in with a jersey that they construct that jersey according to on-ice specs accurate to the era from which the jersey comes. Not a direct quote, but that's a spot on summary of what he told me. I have always taken that to mean that when I bring in a Starter mesh jersey and they construct the numbers top to bottom layered, that they are doing so because that's how the numbering was done in that era for those jerseys. That doesn't mean it's true, but that's the info I've always had. I also know that when a customer brings in a Reebok jersey that they do those with kiss cut numbers, which is where my conclusion about the switch on the ice came from - again assuming that they do jerseys for fans according to accuracy within the era. And if you've got a gamer and other harder core than myself collectors have more info to the contrary then I suppose that means what I've been told by DA is what's incorrect. So, I retract my previous comment, sorry guys.

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SuperTheGreat Newbie

SuperTheGreat

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Thanks enzo for the eddiesjerseyroom link! That is a heap of awesome information. Looks like they stacked in '95/96, kiss cut from '96/97- sort of (like you said in your earlier post via Eddie Olson, coulda' been kiss cut, might not have been on any given jersey) until '98/99 when for some reason they went back to stacking 3 layers again. THEN, went back to semi, reverse, or whatever you call it kiss cut - not when Reebok took over after the lockout, but when the Edge design came in. Very cool stuff, and twists the understanding of legitimacy for the gamers listed on Ebay. (I still think there's enough to call bogus, though).

However, this brings up the issue of accuracy for collectors like me who buy blanks and send them in to be customized. If I'm reading the information from Mr. Olson correctly: If you want an avs starter jersey to be completely accurate to on-ice you need:

* '95s to have 12.75 inch, 3 layer stacked numbers in generation 1 font with the asymmetrical name font.

* '96/97s to have 12.75 inch, kiss cut (or not :wacko: ) numbers in generation 1 font (if you're matching regular season jerseys) or generation 2 font (specifically the 2s with the flat tail - if you're matching playoff jerseys) all with the generation 2 name font (no more asymmetrical letters).

* '97/98s to have 12 inch, kiss cut numbers and name lettering all in generation 2 font.

* '98/99s to have 12 inch, stacked numbers with gen 2 font all around.

Here's what I understand from this: If you have a '97/98 - '98/99 with the wordmark starter logo on the away/star logo on the home, you are accurate with either kiss cut or stacked numbers, since each configuration matches with one of those two years. Go either way and you're good (unless you're matching a specific year with a specific patch i.e. CHS patch). If you have a '96/'97 with the Star & wordmark combination logo, you're accurate with either kiss cut or stacked because any combination of all or both was made at any given time. And you're good with either of the generations of number font, because they changed over for the playoffs and your numbers could match either the regular season or the playoffs. However, your numbers should be 12.75 inches (which probably makes almost everyone's '96/'97 retail authentic inaccurate :( ). And if you have a '95/96 you need stacked, 12.75 inch numbers in gen 1 font.

AND it means that if you want Denver Athletic to do your jersey right, you can't send them a '95 - we all knew this already (they don't do gen 1 font and don't do 12.75 inch numbers) But it also means you can't send them any '96/97 jersey either - because they don't do 12.75 inch numbers, and there's a TON of that year available. I have 3 and just found out that none of them are completely accurate.

Holy Sh*t. :blink: What a cluster!

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enzo269 Newbie

enzo269

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Agreed 100%.. It's quite crazy.. No consistency..
It seems that they were all over the place in the mid and late 1990's as far as customization... My Deadmarsh is exactly what Eddie Olson describes.. Both Kiss Cut numbers on back of jersey...The numbers on sleeve get this, the 1 is kiss cut, the 8 is stacked... :)

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SuperTheGreat Newbie

SuperTheGreat

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Agreed 100%.. It's quite crazy.. No consistency..

It seems that they were all over the place in the mid and late 1990's as far as customization... My Deadmarsh is exactly what Eddie Olson describes.. Both Kiss Cut numbers on back of jersey...The numbers on sleeve get this, the 1 is kiss cut, the 8 is stacked... :)

And your Deadmarsh has the thick stack 1 and the thin stack 8, too. Like they were in transition from the thinner layers to the thick, but they did it mid-jersey instead of waiting for the next set or the next season. I'd LOVE to hear the story from someone who worked for DA back then and find out what it really was like producing the jerseys for the team.

And Mnwildfan, I've never heard that they ever used anyone but DA. Do you have details?????

I think I've decided that the limit to which I'll let accuracy bother me ends with the size of the numbers. For one, it's near impossible to find someone who can do the jerseys right. Two, I wear 48s and there just isn't enough real estate on the back of a 48 to accommodate 12 3/4 inch numbers and a long name. I will say that when I go get my latest '96/'97 done as a Kamensky I'm gonna have them kiss cut the numbers and I'll be accurate in that respect. Something quirky and cool about that jersey for me.

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Xspoilerx Newbie

Xspoilerx

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Wow that's a lot of good info. I've been looking for a starter jersey. Thought I could just pick one up and send it off to denver athletic and be ok I was always confused about the starter wordmark, the star and the tag on the back so this helps a lot

This site explains a little abot the starter tag

http://anyonebutdetroit.com/2011-articles/august/avs-jersey-post-1995-96.html

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enzo269 Newbie

enzo269

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Authentic on ice KOHO sweater with an awful customization.. Lettering and fonts are all jacked up.. UGH!

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LAK74 Rookie

LAK74

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No, the Rangers did not use nameplates then. The jersey is legit, but it's a replica, not an authentic. A CCM small from that era (mid-90's) is pretty tiny. I'm only 5'9" and 150, and I wear a large in those.

It seems rather overpriced to me, and the nameplate looks terrible.

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JohnC Newbie

JohnC

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No, the Rangers did not use nameplates then. The jersey is legit, but it's a replica, not an authentic. A CCM small from that era (mid-90's) is pretty tiny. I'm only 5'9" and 150, and I wear a large in those.

It seems rather overpriced to me, and the nameplate looks terrible.

I kinda figured it seemed too good to be true. I had a feeling they didn't use nameplates too.

For future reference (trying to get a grasp on the sizes), as a person who's (sadly) 5'10" 120, what would be the ideal size?

For me:

Pre-edge = ??

Current Premiers = Medium

Current Authentics = 48-52

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LAK74 Rookie

LAK74

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"Pre-Edge" authentics:

2000-07: CCM/Koho/Reebok: I don't recommend you go over size 46, which is the smallest they come in.

1990's: Starter: also recommend 46.

Nike: 44 (these fit pretty big, and the next size up is 48).

CCM: 46, although there aren't too many of these around. If your arms aren't particularly long, you will probably fit in a 44 as well.

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