formyhunny Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Few questions. First of all, what does it mean if the nike logo is black or dark green or whatever? And how do you know the Bure is fake? If you look closely at the Bure you would notice that the numbers are bubbly and the fight strap is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Few questions. First of all, what does it mean if the nike logo is black or dark green or whatever? And how do you know the Bure is fake? I've never seen the NIke logo that colour...I have no idea about that one. Not to play holier than though (but I always do : ), hunny, bubbly numbers are not always a sign of a fake, although most fakes have them. You won't find any old Oilers or Flames jerseys without wrinkled or bubbly numbers...chances are, if you find one of them with good numbers, it'll be a fake. The crest, the collar, the stripping, the overall cut of the jersey, and even though you can't see much of it, the fight strap do indicate something's wrong, but the dead giveaway on the Bure is the inside hem, notice how the sections are sewn together...fake. That's how most fakes give themselves away; the seller tries to post a picture of a fight strap to prove it's authentic, and then you see the layers all stitched together. Authentic Ultrafils and Air-knits are all one material, just different colours (not sure if dyed or stitched together during fabrication? help me out experts) - Old mesh jerseys, or even more recent ones (Rangers come to mind, are sewn sections, so you have to be more careful with those). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant! Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 No shoulder patches on that Ducks jersey either. Strange. Factory error maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formyhunny Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Not to play holier than though (but I always do : ), hunny, bubbly numbers are not always a sign of a fake, although most fakes have them. You won't find any old Oilers or Flames jerseys without wrinkled or bubbly numbers...chances are, if you find one of them with good numbers, it'll be a fake. The crest, the collar, the stripping, the overall cut of the jersey, and even though you can't see much of it, the fight strap do indicate something's wrong, but the dead giveaway on the Bure is the inside hem, notice how the sections are sewn together...fake. That's how most fakes give themselves away; the seller tries to post a picture of a fight strap to prove it's authentic, and then you see the layers all stitched together. Authentic Ultrafils and Air-knits are all one material, just different colours (not sure if dyed or stitched together during fabrication? help me out experts) - Old mesh jerseys, or even more recent ones (Rangers come to mind, are sewn sections, so you have to be more careful with those). Hey. If you being holier than thou improves my knowledge, then I'm fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladesOfSteel Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I'd say $75 is a deal for any retail authentic Koho, let alone a mint Pens. If you got it, good on ya! Black (or dark green?) Nike logo - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e6737795b This is a shame - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1c1f47d967 These could potentially be good deals for all you midg, er, dwar, er, um, 'little people' - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e67366bd7 http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e6736700d Note - his white Bure is a fake - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e673673bb Except for the fight strap, is the Francis good otherwise? Isn't the seller's black Canucks jersey similar to the white, in that it looks like the bottom stripes are made by sewn-on pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I've never seen the NIke logo that colour...I have no idea about that one. Not to play holier than though (but I always do : ), hunny, bubbly numbers are not always a sign of a fake, although most fakes have them. You won't find any old Oilers or Flames jerseys without wrinkled or bubbly numbers...chances are, if you find one of them with good numbers, it'll be a fake. The crest, the collar, the stripping, the overall cut of the jersey, and even though you can't see much of it, the fight strap do indicate something's wrong, but the dead giveaway on the Bure is the inside hem, notice how the sections are sewn together...fake. That's how most fakes give themselves away; the seller tries to post a picture of a fight strap to prove it's authentic, and then you see the layers all stitched together. Authentic Ultrafils and Air-knits are all one material, just different colours (not sure if dyed or stitched together during fabrication? help me out experts) The old Ultrafil and airknit striping is a result of the actual knitting process. If you look closely at the stripes, you'll see that the line isn't quite straight; down at the base level, you'll see consistent small hills and valleys in the stripes, and they don't go across the pores in the fabric. This is because the fabric is knitted with the stripes in it. Also notice that many jerseys over the last 30 years have body stripes that are exactly the same style and size as the sleeve stripes. Basically, enormous amounts of fabric would be knitted with the stripes in it, then those huge bolts would be cut apart into pieces and re-sewn into a jersey. Sublimated jerseys of the CCM and Nike/Bauer era both look and feel quite a bit different. If you look closely at them, you'll see that the stripes are perfectly straight lines that cut across the pores in the fabric. Also, a sublimated jersey always begins life as white fabric, with the dye then sublimated into it. Since penetration is incomplete (because there's no reason for it to be complete), the inside of the jersey will either remain white or it will have a slight imprint of the dyed image on the inside of it. In addition, the outside of a sublimated jersey will feel quite a bit different than one of the same material that isn't sublimated. This is because sublimation paper has a sort of clearcoat to it to protect the ink; without it, the ink would wash out. The jersey will almost feel slippery and possibly mildly tacky at the same time. It's been mentioned before that stripping an ultrafil jersey can be darn near impossible. In reality, ultrafil (and its cousins) isn't the problem...it's on the sublimated jerseys, for which chemicals used to dissolve glue can cause the clearcoat to melt and the ink to bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 EXCELLENT INFO NATHAN!! Thx! Except for the fight strap, is the Francis good otherwise? Isn't the seller's black Canucks jersey similar to the white, in that it looks like the bottom stripes are made by sewn-on pieces. The Whalers only started wearing that style of jersey in '92, Francis left Hartford in '91...he never wore that jersey. Otherwise, the jersey's fine. As for the black Canucks, we can't see the inside of the hem to confirm. That said, we can confirm it's authentic by the cut of the jersey (notice the sleeve ends, how they taper in?), the logo, etc, but the clincher here, is the collar. From 1982-83 (when they started taking over) CCM authentics followed a specific stitching and cut for the backs of their jerseys and the cut/stitching of their collars. Study these, and get used to seeing this style - Notice how when we see the NS at a distance (full jersey), we can still make out the collar - Naturally, there're exceptions to every rule. In the late 80s the Devils went to an elastic material collar that was slightly different (I think only the Devils) - The back stitching remains the same (that 'T' cut), but the collar doesn't features layers of stitching within it. Instead it's like a one piece elastic band (like your underwear : ) Some other teams (Pens in '92-93 comes to mind) followed suit, but the jersey stitching pattern changed. Most stayed with the traditional style though (until they all started changing into Starter, Nike, etc). Pens - Now go back and open two ebay windows, 1 with each Canucks jersey and compare the two - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e673673bb http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e6736700d Notice the difference? From now on, when you're looking at authentic CCMs from the 80s or early 90s, look for these character traits and you'll quickly be able to tell a fake from an authentic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuore_azzurro Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I've never seen the NIke logo that colour...I have no idea about that one. Not to play holier than though (but I always do : ), hunny, bubbly numbers are not always a sign of a fake, although most fakes have them. You won't find any old Oilers or Flames jerseys without wrinkled or bubbly numbers...chances are, if you find one of them with good numbers, it'll be a fake. I noticed that yesterday as I was watching a documentary I have on VHS called The Boys On the Bus about the '86 and '87 Oilers, it seems that they just started off that way as opposed to becoming wrinkled with time. I saw a couple of those jerseys at the HHOF a few weeks ago and they look like the numbers were just made of a stiffer material. And THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for the heads up re: the green Whalers jersey, if the price stays low it is coming home avec moi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnothaVictim Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 No shoulder patches on that Ducks jersey either. Strange. Factory error maybe? It could also be a prototype version before the ducks decided to add shoulder patches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I noticed that yesterday as I was watching a documentary I have on VHS called The Boys On the Bus about the '86 and '87 Oilers, it seems that they just started off that way as opposed to becoming wrinkled with time. I saw a couple of those jerseys at the HHOF a few weeks ago and they look like the numbers were just made of a stiffer material. And THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for the heads up re: the green Whalers jersey, if the price stays low it is coming home avec moi. Thank you for the documentary info; I'm downloading it as we speak...er...type Also noticed 'The Boys are Back' doc from the 88-89 season that looks good. G'luck getting the Whalers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladesOfSteel Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 EXCELLENT INFO NATHAN!! Thx! The Whalers only started wearing that style of jersey in '92, Francis left Hartford in '91...he never wore that jersey. Otherwise, the jersey's fine. As for the black Canucks, we can't see the inside of the hem to confirm. That said, we can confirm it's authentic by the cut of the jersey (notice the sleeve ends, how they taper in?), the logo, etc, but the clincher here, is the collar. From 1982-83 (when they started taking over) CCM authentics followed a specific stitching and cut for the backs of their jerseys and the cut/stitching of their collars. Study these, and get used to seeing this style - Notice how when we see the NS at a distance (full jersey), we can still make out the collar - Naturally, there're exceptions to every rule. In the late 80s the Devils went to an elastic material collar that was slightly different (I think only the Devils) - The back stitching remains the same (that 'T' cut), but the collar doesn't features layers of stitching within it. Instead it's like a one piece elastic band (like your underwear : ) Some other teams (Pens in '92-93 comes to mind) followed suit, but the jersey stitching pattern changed. Most stayed with the traditional style though (until they all started changing into Starter, Nike, etc). Pens - Now go back and open two ebay windows, 1 with each Canucks jersey and compare the two - http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e673673bb http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e6736700d Notice the difference? From now on, when you're looking at authentic CCMs from the 80s or early 90s, look for these character traits and you'll quickly be able to tell a fake from an authentic I must admit, I'm having a hard time telling the difference from just looking the collar in those pictures. I think I understand what you mean about the fabric and colours. I hope this one I bought is good: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/330613849981?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladesOfSteel Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 The Isles is good, but it shouldn't have the Cosby logo on the rear hem (but easily removed - http://forums.icejerseys.com/index.php?showtopic=4153 ) It's a pretty rare jersey so $150 is a good price, IMO, but I'd message him and get detailed pics of the repairs; his front pic doesn't show it that well, and I'd want to see the two on the rear. FYI - the seller's a good guy. What year would that Islanders be good for? I've found pictures of CCM (blue, blue, red) and this one is all blue, small CCM...but not sure what this means for the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseycollector Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I must admit, I'm having a hard time telling the difference from just looking the collar in those pictures. I think I understand what you mean about the fabric and colours. I hope this one I bought is good: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/330613849981?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 That jersey is legit. Nice pick-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYIJM29 Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 WTF? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Darius-Kasparaitis-Pittsburgh-Penguins-CCM-Jersey-XL-SEWN-RARE-/330617590385?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item4cfa581271 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuore_azzurro Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thank you for the documentary info; I'm downloading it as we speak...er...type Also noticed 'The Boys are Back' doc from the 88-89 season that looks good. G'luck getting the Whalers! Boys On the Bus is a must-watch, you'll like it. Wayne Gretzky tells a joke about duck hunting that to this day, having watched that movie at least 50 times, I still don't get. And probably my favourite part is when Messier cross checks Reijo Routsalainen 3 times in the back and breaks his stick in the process and then can't believe it when he gets a penalty. I didn't know there was a sequel, I may check that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYIJM29 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 What year would that Islanders be good for? I've found pictures of CCM (blue, blue, red) and this one is all blue, small CCM...but not sure what this means for the years? I think mid 1980s to 1991? Can anyone verify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatryk Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 WTF? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Darius-Kasparaitis-Pittsburgh-Penguins-CCM-Jersey-XL-SEWN-RARE-/330617590385?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item4cfa581271 people enjoy darius, that is seriously too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYIJM29 Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 people enjoy darius, that is seriously too much don't get me wrong, I think everyone should catch the Kasparaitis, but not at that price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 WTF, did you guys not read the auction title? It quite clearly says the jersey is, and I quote - "RARE" Well worth it And probably my favourite part is when Messier cross checks Reijo Routsalainen 3 times in the back and breaks his stick in the process and then can't believe it when he gets a penalty. I didn't know there was a sequel, I may check that out. I watched that part on youtube earlier, love how he's standing in front of the ref without a stick saying - "What, is it because I broke my stick on his back?" Here's some of the sequel - What year would that Islanders be good for? I've found pictures of CCM (blue, blue, red) and this one is all blue, small CCM...but not sure what this means for the years? The Islanders started using the blue blue blue CCM in '87-88 (previous was blue blue orange) up until '89-90 when they switched to the bigger block style, and, of course, added the NHL logo afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 A poorly customized jersey that Gretz never even wore, for $405?!? http://www.ebay.com/itm/180727512105?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Jebus!!! He cleaned up on the others too - $261 is a lot for this, and not that it's too bad, but the arm numbers are slightly off... http://www.ebay.com/itm/180727508056?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Sakic's about right - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Joe-Sakic-Quebec-Nordiques-CCM-Jersey-Size-48-w-Fight-Strap-19-/180727122073?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item2a142d0899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Matthews Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 That's the same guy I bought my Gretzky Liberty from. It was my first authentic, and in hindsight, I overpaid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMusic Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I've never seen the NIke logo that colour...I have no idea about that one. Not to play holier than though (but I always do : ), hunny, bubbly numbers are not always a sign of a fake, although most fakes have them. You won't find any old Oilers or Flames jerseys without wrinkled or bubbly numbers...chances are, if you find one of them with good numbers, it'll be a fake. The crest, the collar, the stripping, the overall cut of the jersey, and even though you can't see much of it, the fight strap do indicate something's wrong, but the dead giveaway on the Bure is the inside hem, notice how the sections are sewn together...fake. That's how most fakes give themselves away; the seller tries to post a picture of a fight strap to prove it's authentic, and then you see the layers all stitched together. Authentic Ultrafils and Air-knits are all one material, just different colours (not sure if dyed or stitched together during fabrication? help me out experts) - Old mesh jerseys, or even more recent ones (Rangers come to mind, are sewn sections, so you have to be more careful with those). Unfortunately you can't use the whole "stitched together" distinction with RBK edge jerseys, as the pro jerseys have the different colour sections stitched together....which is probably why the fakes in the older styles are done that way, since they started faking Starter Gretzkys first (Starter mesh was stitched together) and then the RBKs (stitched together) and then the older jerseys. The manufacturing process remained the same when fake older jerseys were produced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladesOfSteel Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 A poorly customized jersey that Gretz never even wore, for $405?!? http://www.ebay.com/itm/180727512105?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Jebus!!! He cleaned up on the others too - $261 is a lot for this, and not that it's too bad, but the arm numbers are slightly off... http://www.ebay.com/itm/180727508056?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 Sakic's about right - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Joe-Sakic-Quebec-Nordiques-CCM-Jersey-Size-48-w-Fight-Strap-19-/180727122073?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item2a142d0899 I saw both those jerseys and thought for sure the Sakic would sell for more, especially, as you said, the arm font is off on the Gilmour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuore_azzurro Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I watched that part on youtube earlier, love how he's standing in front of the ref without a stick saying - "What, is it because I broke my stick on his back?" Here's some of the sequel - It took me a while to realize that I was looking at a very young Ron Maclean and Chris Cuthbert as well. Also, I've seen Wayne's first game back in Edmonton on tape in its entirety, the Kings got destroyed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukierules Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Pro-Ron-Francis-Hartford-Whalers-Jersey-Size-52-Pre-Center-Ice-/320766016916?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item4aaf24fd94#ht_2798wt_932 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Pro-Washington-Capitals-Jersey-JUNEAU-Size-52-CCM-Maska-RARE-/130581706926?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item1e6746b8ae#ht_562wt_932 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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