sungod661 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 MOVED HERE BY SLIM Yes, I have the LOA, got it from a reputable source and traced its ownership back to the original LOA. Photomatching it isn't simple, but I'm making an attempt. It is also autographed by Neely on the inside under the crest. Pretty sure this is a match because of the red spot i zoomed in as much as i could but i am 65% sure it is a match http://www.ebay.com/...=item35c0c3a2e3 you can see the red mark near the logo pretty clearly even in low res, the placement of the mark might be wrong but you would need to have the pic to tell. ****I should point out that a match is only a match when it is 100% so for now you have a potentil match might be worth buying the picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungod661 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 i reviewed it further using a even bigger zoom.....i would feel comfortable in saying i think i got your hopes up it is not a match....sorry. The "A" placement is off so its not the same shirt....srry ill keep checking for you illsee what i can come up with when i have a little time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat1988 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 How about this photo of Neely as a potential photo match? On Neely's left arm, there appear to be very similar marks to the top right of the sleeve 8. I can't see it due to the way the jersey is folded, but another matching mark on the same left sleeve to the left of the shoulder patch would be promising. I don't know the dates of the Bruins sets that year, but this photo of Neely is from 3/7/94. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 How about this photo of Neely as a potential photo match? On Neely's left arm, there appear to be very similar marks to the top right of the sleeve 8. I can't see it due to the way the jersey is folded, but another matching mark on the same left sleeve to the left of the shoulder patch would be promising. I don't know the dates of the Bruins sets that year, but this photo of Neely is from 3/7/94. I'll take some better pictures of the sleeves, etc. when I get home. Since it is a Set 2 from the season in which he scored 50 in 49 games, its a good possiblity that he was in this jersey in March. That photo was taken the night he got his 50th, so maybe that's a good place to start and maybe even a well photographed event. It would be pretty cool if that's the jersey he was wearing. Thanks for the help! I'll take better photos later and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Anyone like to take a stab at matching this jersey to a photo? This is a Neely, Set 2 1993-94. I'm not sure of the set dates, but there were 15 Home dates in 1994 that he played in, so I'm thinking Set 2 would probably be amongst those.... http://www.hockey-re...1/gamelog/1994/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 i reviewed it further using a even bigger zoom.....i would feel comfortable in saying i think i got your hopes up it is not a match....sorry. The "A" placement is off so its not the same shirt....srry ill keep checking for you illsee what i can come up with when i have a little time Can you tell who the Rangers goalie is in the picture? Glenn Healy was in net both times they played in the Garden in 1993-94, so if that isn't Glenn Healy, it's probably the wrong season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 You're going to need a photomatch for this. A couple of things are cause for concern from my perspective. 1) Custom Crafted and the Bruins. The so-called "CC Specials" went all the way through to 1996 or 1997, after the Bruins had switched over to the full-yoke shoulder style. 2) CC Specials are notorious for having strangely-placed red marks (generally called "CC lipstick" or something else along those lines) where red marks do not normally end up. The red transfers on game jerseys are from rubbing the top of the boards at high speed. Naturally, these most commonly cluster around the elbows, and very occasionally outside and either up toward the bicep or down toward the wrist. To have red marks, especially multiple red marks, on the front of the body of the jersey or in the middle of a sleeve number would be extremely unusual on a gamer, even one with very heavy wear. To have as many red marks as stick/puck marks would be uncommon unless the team uses dry cleaning services, but the heavy wear found on dozens of other Bruins jerseys from the same time period would indicate this to not be the case. I'm not saying this is a good jersey, and I'm not saying this is bad. But you're going to need an ironclad photomatch on this. http://web.archive.org/web/20021221110927/http://byronshockeyland.com/FakePages/BourqueLH.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow_hound Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Again not trying to rain on the parade but the added nhl shield stitched beside the ccm logo was a another trait on a cc faked brett hull st louis blues gamer. Although in your case its quite possible because its ultrafil they recycled an 89-90 and added the shield to be consistent with the rest of the set. A photomatch would be paramount however as mentioned by nathan the red marks seem a little suspect in location unless he was leveled into the goal posts or boards body first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Again not trying to rain on the parade but the added nhl shield stitched beside the ccm logo was a another trait on a cc faked brett hull st louis blues gamer. Although in your case its quite possible because its ultrafil they recycled an 89-90 and added the shield to be consistent with the rest of the set. A photomatch would be paramount however as mentioned by nathan the red marks seem a little suspect in location unless he was leveled into the goal posts or boards body first. Good eye. Buying uncrested jerseys from CCM wouldn't be an issue, but obviously it'd come without any NHL identifiers on it. Or patches, for that matter, but that's another story. If I remember right, Milt Byron found a couple of Bourque CC Specials that had the shoulder patches sewn on in a very weird manner. My theory on this. It was a blank uncrested CCM ultrafil jersey. It arrived sans NHL logos or anything, and had only the neck tagging and the CCM three-block tagging on the tail without an NHL logo. Someone at CC added the NHL logo to the hem (poorly), and got their hands on a front crest and shoulder patches, which may well be applied incorrectly as well. Then it was a simple matter of putting a Neely kit on, putting the CC stamp in, and adding the lipstick wear. There are probably a few long snags on the jersey as well, like if someone took the hook from a wire coat hanger and dragged it across a space of anywhere from 4-10". Chances are that they're all going the same way, or at least the same general direction. There's likely a disproportionate amount of pilling to the actual amount of wear. Now, this is all possible. Neely did in fact wear an ultrafil jersey with an airknit nameplate. And he is known to have worn a jersey for a period in 1994-95 that actually did not have the NHL shield, so it's entirely possible that a small handful of ultrafil shirts were kept on just for him and the NHL shield was added after the fact. Sherlock Holmes once said that the height of folly is to theorize without facts. No, I don't have all the facts, but what I've seen in the pictures above follows a known pattern of jerseys from this particular time period, from a small number of teams, from a specific source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Also, I'm curious to know who the LOA comes from, and if someone else has authenticated it as well. (I say this only because I know of another white 1993-94 Neely Set 2 out there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob77ta Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Are there any team repairs that you could compare to other Bruins gamers from the same year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 When did the Custom Crafted Specials appear on the market? Not which era the jerseys were from, but actually when they started being identified as being specials, as opposed to game worn jerseys. And when they appeared, were they sold with LOAs? If so, what LOA and from who? Also, comparing against the Bourque that was linked to, these red marks are not the same and definitely not as dark. It could have been laundered, however, the Neely signature is not faded and was added at a point in time after the jersey was purchased and authenticated. I know who the LOA came from on this jersey, but I'd rather not taint the discussion at this point. I also know who the original purchaser was, as well as the date of the sale. I am seeking the photo match still, so any help there with sources from that era would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimcutta Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Everyone's right; it's completely 110% fake...I'll give you $10 for it, and not a penny more. Let me know where to send the payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob77ta Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Here is some info I read over at GW.net: The Bruins CC specials go back as far as the 1980's with a major boom in 91/92. Usually they were star players. Game issued jerseys would be the canvas so they would be accurate sizing and customization. The oldest post on gw.net is from 2000 but Milt Byron may be able to say when they were first identified. As Nate said and to add a little, there would be bogus repairs ( no actual holes ), fake stick marks, abrasions by a sharp instrument, and the aforementioned red lipstick marks to resemble red dasher marks. It is important to note that the bogus repairs showed up more on the CC special Devils jerseys as compared to the Bruins CC specials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Rob, Thanks for the info. I PM'd you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 When did the Custom Crafted Specials appear on the market? Not which era the jerseys were from, but actually when they started being identified as being specials, as opposed to game worn jerseys. And when they appeared, were they sold with LOAs? If so, what LOA and from who? Also, comparing against the Bourque that was linked to, these red marks are not the same and definitely not as dark. It could have been laundered, however, the Neely signature is not faded and was added at a point in time after the jersey was purchased and authenticated. I know who the LOA came from on this jersey, but I'd rather not taint the discussion at this point. I also know who the original purchaser was, as well as the date of the sale. I am seeking the photo match still, so any help there with sources from that era would be appreciated. To go quickly through here... CC specials first started being identified between 1999-2000. They were composed of the various teams that used Custom Crafted for customizing purposes...Boston, New Jersey, St. Louis, Hartford. I think I'm missing a team or two in there, but those are the most prominent. LOAs originally came from someone on the inside. Milt Byron was the one who really did a ton of digging on this, and figured that it was someone high up in CC itself who was responsible (Rick Cavallaro, I believe, but don't quote me on that. Milt had a handful at the 2000 Detroit Expo and basically did a demonstration on what to look for. I have seen CC specials up close. Having red marks on a jersey isn't uncommon. But the pattern on CC specials jerseys is extremely uncommon. http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2150839860055476068SCYIKi This is a minor league (ECHL Columbus Chill) jersey that I own that obviously has very extensive wear. Look at the amount of red, but look most closely at how it's clustered. You can see which ones are more recent, and which dulled (through laundering) to an orange color. But most important is that you don't see them on the chest, sides, or up on the arms. I mentioned up above that there's another white Neely Set 2 1993-94 out there. In that one, the CC stamp is up a bit higher and runs along a seam, and there's also a noted minimum of red marks. I don't know if it's been photomatched or not, but a guy playing 49 games and having two Set 2's from a team that was known for having absolutely hammered gamers from that era seems unlikely. Unfortunately, there's no database of identified CC specials out there. I'd be curious to see one put together though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzo269 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Can you tell who the Rangers goalie is in the picture? Glenn Healy was in net both times they played in the Garden in 1993-94, so if that isn't Glenn Healy, it's probably the wrong season. That is Vanbiesbrouck... Wasnt on the Rangers in 93-94.... Mike Richter/Glen Healy were the goaltenders.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 That is Vanbiesbrouck... Wasnt on the Rangers in 93-94.... Mike Richter/Glen Healy were the goaltenders.. Thanks, wrong season then. To go quickly through here... CC specials first started being identified between 1999-2000. They were composed of the various teams that used Custom Crafted for customizing purposes...Boston, New Jersey, St. Louis, Hartford. I think I'm missing a team or two in there, but those are the most prominent. LOAs originally came from someone on the inside. Milt Byron was the one who really did a ton of digging on this, and figured that it was someone high up in CC itself who was responsible (Rick Cavallaro, I believe, but don't quote me on that. Milt had a handful at the 2000 Detroit Expo and basically did a demonstration on what to look for. I have seen CC specials up close. Having red marks on a jersey isn't uncommon. But the pattern on CC specials jerseys is extremely uncommon. http://sports.websho...055476068SCYIKi This is a minor league (ECHL Columbus Chill) jersey that I own that obviously has very extensive wear. Look at the amount of red, but look most closely at how it's clustered. You can see which ones are more recent, and which dulled (through laundering) to an orange color. But most important is that you don't see them on the chest, sides, or up on the arms. I mentioned up above that there's another white Neely Set 2 1993-94 out there. In that one, the CC stamp is up a bit higher and runs along a seam, and there's also a noted minimum of red marks. I don't know if it's been photomatched or not, but a guy playing 49 games and having two Set 2's from a team that was known for having absolutely hammered gamers from that era seems unlikely. Unfortunately, there's no database of identified CC specials out there. I'd be curious to see one put together though. FWIW, my LOA is from 1996 and comes from Milton Byron and according to the letter, he obtained the jersey originally and is, in his opinion, a game worn Neely jersey. I have the name of the first owner on the LOA. The second owner got it, held it for 10 years, then sold it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks, wrong season then. FWIW, my LOA is from 1996 and comes from Milton Byron and according to the letter, he obtained the jersey originally and is, in his opinion, a game worn Neely jersey. I have the name of the first owner on the LOA. The second owner got it, held it for 10 years, then sold it to me. Interesting. I don't know if you're registered on gameworn.net, but there are plenty of Bruins collectors and a few who have terrific photographic access as well. I'd recommend posting there (if you are registered) for more opinions, and if not I'd be happy to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnothaVictim Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Both my Whalers Shanahan are CC Specials. The road jersey is a size 48 or 50 but tagged 54 by CC. The white jersey is marked as "Not Game Worn". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Interesting. I don't know if you're registered on gameworn.net, but there are plenty of Bruins collectors and a few who have terrific photographic access as well. I'd recommend posting there (if you are registered) for more opinions, and if not I'd be happy to help. Well, to me the paperwork looks good. This jersey hasn't been passed around much and Milt Byron was the first person outside of the Bruins organization to get his hands on it (if the paperwork is accurate). And since he's the expert on Custom Crafted Specials and he's had this jersey and authenticated it to the best of knowledge as being a game worn jersey from the 93/94 season, then it would seem to be a big check in the plus column for this jersey. He authenticated it in 1996, which, by my reading of information posted on this issue, was well past the time when he had already identified the Specials and he deemed that this one wasn't. I suppose that he could be mistaken, but my understanding was that Byron's Hockeyland purchased this entire set of jerseys directly from the Bruins. So, if that's true, then that's another big plus I would think. Any additional help, or even counter opinions, are welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngeloS76 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Those red marks look wider than what the GW forum and Milt would call the "lipstick". And they actually look like scrapes from the boards, with some fade-in and fade-out. Just because it's on the chest doesn't make it less of a possible burn. The wear on the elbow in this last picture above my post does seem a little off, like something ripped it as opposed to a hole being generated from strong impact with boards or a stick, but ultrafil is a strong material, and it may not be as prone to holes as air-knit is. The browning inside the fight strap is definitely a good sign, something to say that this was actually worn during game play, though there isn't as much rust in the snaps as some might expect from a worn jersey. But, not all snaps are going to show rust, so that's not to rule out either. What does the pilling look like on the inside of the elbows and shoulders? Edit on the fly: A Neely ultrafil from a few years earlier. If the repairs on yours look similar, it might be the case that yours is good to go, or that they're both "specials". http://www.gamewornauctions.net/products/1989_90_Cam_Neely_Boston_Bruins_Game_Worn_Jersey-3445-101.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8erade Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 The pilling, to me, is fairly light and comparable to other ultrafil gamers I own from the late 80s. To me, it is comparable to the wear on the outside of the jersey, which is also rather light. This isn't like my jerseys that I wear every week for 2 or 3 years in beer league. Lol. The red marks are actually quite faded and subtle (I enhanced the first set of pictures, which made the colors a little more vibrant). The one on the 8 blends into a burn on the number itself. Perhaps this was a back up or replacement jersey. He was the only guy still in ultrafil, as far as i know. I wish I knew more about how many jerseys he went through. Bourque was well known to sweat through several a game. Also, you might not be able to tell from the photo, but the stitching is popped on the fight strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnothaVictim Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Edit on the fly: A Neely ultrafil from a few years earlier. If the repairs on yours look similar, it might be the case that yours is good to go, or that they're both "specials". http://www.gameworna...y-3445-101.html I'm kinda missing the Custom Crafted stamp on the outside hem. Isn't there supposed to be one that season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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