Best place to get chinese knockoffs?

[ferro39]

the counterfeiters wouldnt even be in business if the league didnt butt rape the licensees for the rights to produce the jerseys and the manufacturers didnt butt rape the retailers. i once worked in fashion, so im well aware of the overhead that goes into sourcing, producing and shipping a jersey, but $300 for an authentic edge, for example, is straight comical

i dont own any fakes, but i also havent paid regular retail price for a jersey in 12-13 years because the prices are dumb high. if i cant get one on sale or find it on ebay, i just dont buy

also, if we want to talk about things like "stealing" and "robbing," it would be remiss if we didnt talk about how much professional sports leagues profit off of apparel (not just the nhl). i was just in an nhl team store last week: $30 for a hat or t-shirt and $90 for a hoodie? pardon my french, but fukkouttahere.

im not advocating fakes and will never buy one, but personally, it's hard for me to sympathize with someone stealing from the nhl when the nhl is guilty of the exact same thing

[DaNoobie]

the counterfeiters wouldnt even be in business if the league didnt butt rape the licensees for the rights to produce the jerseys and the manufacturers didnt butt rape the retailers. i once worked in fashion, so im well aware of the overhead that goes into sourcing, producing and shipping a jersey, but $300 for an authentic edge, for example, is straight comical

i dont own any fakes, but i also havent paid regular retail price for a jersey in 12-13 years because the prices are dumb high. if i cant get one on sale or find it on ebay, i just dont buy

also, if we want to talk about things like "stealing" and "robbing," it would be remiss if we didnt talk about how much professional sports leagues profit off of apparel (not just the nhl). i was just in an nhl team store last week: $30 for a hat or t-shirt and $90 for a hoodie? pardon my french, but fukkouttahere.

im not advocating fakes and will never buy one, but personally, it's hard for me to sympathize with someone stealing from the nhl when the nhl is guilty of the exact same thing

The NHL marketed their brand and are simply reaping the rewards of their success. I'm not aware of them breaking any laws in doing so. Like most businesses, they're trying to make as much money as they can. No one is in the business of breaking even, so I'm not sure why you're faulting them.

[ferro39]

im not faulting them and i dont blame the league for maximizing profits. i just dont feel sorry for them, and i also dont try to force my beliefs onto other people. to each his or her own.

if some 16yo chooses to buy a fake instead of working 70 hours (after taxes) to buy a customized authentic from nhl.com, im not going to hate on him and compare him to an armed criminal.

[DaNoobie]

I guess I take issue with "guilty of the exact same thing" when its really night and day.

[nogoal99]

I feel like it was a regrettable question to ask on this forum, as you will really never get support from anyone on here. Should have just posted "trying to get a cheap set of nice team sweaters, any suggestions?" something along those lines. People would have been much more apt to help you out, rather then having the thread deteriorate in to well worn "cost" arguments.

Personally I'd say stick with the rbk or ccm gamewear from hocky giant or blanks from http://www.hockeyjerseysdirect.com/hjd/ try to find a deal on something like that, send an email to Don at MLL telling him you want to do a team order for names and #'s and ask what kind of break he can give you. Those will last longer, look better, and not employ con-artists. Plus your transactions will all be safe.

Or message this guy and tell him you'll take them all for $35-40 each. I bet he'll go for it, it says VERY MOTIVATED on the listing, + the are Ultrafil which is pretty awesome.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Team-Set-Pro-Return-hockey-jerseys-fight-strap-/270741435882?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f097275ea

[ferro39]

I guess I take issue with "guilty of the exact same thing" when its really night and day.

no, of course the league isnt legally robbing anyone in the literal sense. im with you there and i didnt choose my words wisely. i just think that a pretty good case could be made that $380 + shipping and tax? for a glorified shirt with some letters and numbers sewn on is highway robbery especially how it relates to a teenager wanting to support his or her favorite team and not an adult with a FT, good-paying job

there will always be people who just dont care about the aesthetics of a crappy fake jersey and just want to save some money or who dont know how to (or care to learn) tell the differences between real and fake, but i truly believe that if they were priced better, that it would really put a strain on the people who are turning out this garbage

[DaNoobie]

I feel like my perspective will lead into this long rant on economics in general which is both off topic for the thread as well as the forum in general, so I'll just say that I dispute your claim that jerseys only relate to teenagers - especially considering the majority of us are not teenagers, neither are those who attend hockey games.

My biggest concern is mostly people getting scammed paying $150 for an "authentic" on craigslist. I've long since given up on trying to convert people. Knockoff clothing has been around since like, the early 90s if not even earlier with fake Nike/Adidas apparel, and later on knockoff handbags and watches. So really, this issue and subsequent debate is hardly new. People will pay for whatever they desire to spend their money -hard earned or otherwise- on and theres always someone out there who will differ in opinion. So really, who are we to judge? We're just a very very small group of somewhat like minded people with regards to hockey jerseys.

[rabinsurance]

So what if the the NHL, which owns the copyrights, or Reebok, which buys a license to make them, charges $300 for an authentic. DON"T BUY ONE. Buy a legitimate replica, or a t-shirt for that matter. No one has a right at birth to own an NHL jersey. If you can't or won't afford it, tough. My analogy of robbing the convenience store is spot on. If a kid wants to support his team, there are plenty of t-shirts that he or she can buy in their price range. How is buying a jersey that the team will never see a dime from "support"?

[akteon]

You don't have to be SPECIALMAN to know that Chinese knockoffs are bad ...

[ferro39]

for one, i never said that jerseys only relate to teenagers. i just used them as an example. the same could really apply to any working class joe--single, married, married with kids, etc. basically, anyone with limited expendable income

in response to rabininsurance: says you. maybe someone doesnt want a t-shirt or a replica. maybe they want a fight strap in their jersey even if it is a fake fight strap. there are probably a million different reasons why people might knowingly buy a fake. if someone wants one badly enough, they're not going to deny himself or herself because "it's not a birth right" to own a jersey.

if you really feel as though someone is less of a fan for buying a fake jersey, we can agree to disagree. to be perfectly honest (and i dont mean this to be insulting in any way), but if i was ever tempted to buy a fake jersey, i wouldnt care what you or anyone else would think about it, and im sure the vast majority of the people who buy them feel the same way.

the same way danoobie doesnt want to go on a rant about economics is the same way i dont want to go on a rant about moralities. as a jersey community, sure it's frustrating to see the market flooded with bad copies, but unless the league wants to start paying us to be the jersey police, it's not our fight and it's none of our business.

pro life? dont have an abortion. straight edge or uber religious? knock your socks off, but dont force your beliefs on other people. dont like fake jerseys? dont buy them.

im sure someone will now argue semantics about how counterfeiting is illegal, which it is, but let's face it: nobody is going to jail for wearing a fake jersey they got on ebay, though.

wanna hate? focus your attentions on the people who are turning the stuff out

[schulzmc]

Do the overseas Knockoff companies pay the teams to license the logos? If not, maybe that analogy is not too far off.

Edit - guess I didn't read p. 2 before posting this. Never mind.

[Hockey Bob]

After reading this thread I gotta say I couldn't agree more then with what I read posted by ferro39.

When I go to the game and pay $6 for a beer who is bending over who?

If a part time fan wants to feel good about buying a CKO have at it, I don't want one but I ain't gonna get up on someone for doing it.

I don't think it'll matter much to the NHL, they sell plenty of jersey's and beer and i'm sure they won't starve.

No matter what is out there for sale someone will make a knock off version and someone will buy it.

If nothing else Canucks fans can buy em to burn outside of their stadium after clinching a series.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/madhouse-enforcer/Canucks_Fans_Burn_Hawks_Jersey_Chicago-120818754.html

[formyhunny]

After reading this thread I gotta say I couldn't agree more then with what I read posted by ferro39.

When I go to the game and pay $6 for a beer who is bending over who?

If a part time fan wants to feel good about buying a CKO have at it, I don't want one but I ain't gonna get up on someone for doing it.

I don't think it'll matter much to the NHL, they sell plenty of jersey's and beer and i'm sure they won't starve.

No matter what is out there for sale someone will make a knock off version.

If nothing else Canucks fans can buy em to burn out side of their stadium after clinching a series.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/madhouse-enforcer/Canucks_Fans_Burn_Hawks_Jersey_Chicago-120818754.html

I've seen that video. That was actually very disrespectful. Instead of burning a jersey why can't they give it to someone who can't afford it and make someone feel happy at the end?

[rabinsurance]

If you owned something and someone stole it and undercut you, taking money out of your pocket, you would sing a different tune. And going to a hockey game and owning a jersey is not a right. It doesn't make it any less wrong to "justify" actions by thinking "The NHL are millionaires. Screw 'em." There is absolutely no grey area here. Buying a knockoff doesn't make someone less of a fan, it makes them less of a human being. Period. And those that buy are just as culpable as those who supply.

[Hockey Bob]

I've seen that video. That was actually very disrespectful. Instead of burning a jersey why can't they give it to someone who can't afford it and make someone feel happy at the end?

Now THAT is funny!

I have a few friends and co-workers up in Vancouver, they don't collect jerseys but they were shocked by that video as well.

My thoughts as a Hawk fan, eh' we were bested, it's over but we now have a rally cry for next year.

As a Jersey collector, RIP THEIR EARS OFF!!!!!

[DropkickMurphy8]

If you owned something and someone stole it and undercut you, taking money out of your pocket, you would sing a different tune. And going to a hockey game and owning a jersey is not a right. It doesn't make it any less wrong to "justify" actions by thinking "The NHL are millionaires. Screw 'em." There is absolutely no grey area here. Buying a knockoff doesn't make someone less of a fan, it makes them less of a human being. Period. And those that buy are just as culpable as those who supply.

The fact that you think someone is less of a human being for owning a fake jersey is laughable, and it shows what kind of person you are. I own a knockoff, it was the first jersey I bought. I've since bought 7 real replicas, and I assure you that I am no less of a human being than anyone else simply because I own a fake jersey.....That's absurd.

[jerseymikea]

Boy was Johnny Right....This is getting interesting...

[Brilliant!]

Touchy subject. Keep it as civilized as possible otherwise, I'll be forced to shut it down.

[flyhighguys94]

i ran outta popcorn

[NYIJM29]

i ran outta popcorn

Nice bump! Very creative

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Might as well defend my rationale I threw in there earlier that's been disagreed with.

Ok, so two crimes:

Buying a knockoff hurts Reebok, NHL, teams, and consumers (price raising to compensate), albeit all non-directly (since crime doesn't hurt them directly in a monetarily definable way, just hurts their IP and possibly sales. Not saying it doesn't cause economic harm, just pointing that it's indirect). Armed robbery of a store actually takes money directly from the store, which adversely affects the owner in liquidity and is directly attributable to the act. There is no 3rd party, no deterrence, nothing, direct harm.

We law folk like to call the knockoff market a victimless crime, in that the victim doesn't necessarily experience the crime, just the effects. the victim isn't necessary to the crime: this happens despite Reebok et al, but the armed robbery occurs at the business place and would also harm the owner directly. The armed robbery takes goods, not to mention the adverse mental effects it has on the clerk. That has to be considered. Furthermore, that person might allocate funds to protect his store, etc.

The fact is I agree that the knock-off market is bad, but to compare it to armed robbery is a stretch. If the guy was going to an NHL store and taking 18 jerseys at gunpoint, yes. But you have to differentiate between direct and indirect harm.

[rabinsurance]

Perhaps the analogy was a little over the top, but I wonder if our hosts at IceJerseys feel that counterfeits are a "victimless" crime? Maybe Cry Wolf or Keener could chime in here.

What's sad is that there is a whole generation of internet users who have never paid for a piece of music or movie in their lives and just download it for "free" off of limewire or some other torrent sites and think nothing of it. Yet when someone like the RIAA or the Motion Picture academy goes after illegal downloaders they shout "bullies" at them. The heck with the musicians, songwriters, producers, publishers, actors, and studios that don't get paid. "They're all millionaires and I'm just a college student living in a dorm or my parent's basement." I hear and read that all the time. Do people ever really consider the consequences of their actions? The music business is in the toilet right now, and it's not gonna get better anytime soon. Why do you think that ticket prices for concerts and movies keep going up and up? It's not just the cost of production.

If someone wants to buy a counterfeit product, I guess little can be done. But if people really stopped and considered where their money is really going, and what they are supporting, maybe they would think twice. And yes, you could make an argument that "legitimate" products are made in sweat shops and such, but that is just avoiding the point here. Just think about your actions. If you have ever owned a business, or watched one go under due to these things, you would understand. And with that, I'll step off the soapbox.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Perhaps the analogy was a little over the top, but I wonder if our hosts at IceJerseys feel that counterfeits are a "victimless" crime? Maybe Cry Wolf or Keener could chime in here.

What's sad is that there is a whole generation of internet users who have never paid for a piece of music or movie in their lives and just download it for "free" off of limewire or some other torrent sites and think nothing of it. Yet when someone like the RIAA or the Motion Picture academy goes after illegal downloaders they shout "bullies" at them. The heck with the musicians, songwriters, producers, publishers, actors, and studios that don't get paid. "They're all millionaires and I'm just a college student living in a dorm or my parent's basement." I hear and read that all the time. Do people ever really consider the consequences of their actions? The music business is in the toilet right now, and it's not gonna get better anytime soon. Why do you think that ticket prices for concerts and movies keep going up and up? It's not just the cost of production.

If someone wants to buy a counterfeit product, I guess little can be done. But if people really stopped and considered where their money is really going, and what they are supporting, maybe they would think twice. And yes, you could make an argument that "legitimate" products are made in sweat shops and such, but that is just avoiding the point here. Just think about your actions. If you have ever owned a business, or watched one go under due to these things, you would understand. And with that, I'll step off the soapbox.

Dude, I'm not supporting it. And you either didn't read my victimless thing, of you're ignoring it.

I don't know if you're directing the supporting of illegalities at me so I'll let you answer that. BUT, as a musician, I can tell you that MOST musicians would happily give out their music for free as long as you go to a show, by a shirt, etc. But you're right, it is a problem and I never said it wasn't. My entire argument was that your analogy was a complete over-statement.

[NYIJM29]

I can tell you that MOST musicians would happily give out their music for free as long as you go to a show, by a shirt, etc.

Sorry to deviate from the thread, but you are correct. I know for a fact The Offspring wanted to release one of their albums for free online, but the music company (I wanna say Sony) would not let them.

[Nathan]

Might as well defend my rationale I threw in there earlier that's been disagreed with.

Ok, so two crimes:

Buying a knockoff hurts Reebok, NHL, teams, and consumers (price raising to compensate), albeit all non-directly (since crime doesn't hurt them directly in a monetarily definable way, just hurts their IP and possibly sales. Not saying it doesn't cause economic harm, just pointing that it's indirect). Armed robbery of a store actually takes money directly from the store, which adversely affects the owner in liquidity and is directly attributable to the act. There is no 3rd party, no deterrence, nothing, direct harm.

We law folk like to call the knockoff market a victimless crime, in that the victim doesn't necessarily experience the crime, just the effects. the victim isn't necessary to the crime: this happens despite Reebok et al, but the armed robbery occurs at the business place and would also harm the owner directly. The armed robbery takes goods, not to mention the adverse mental effects it has on the clerk. That has to be considered. Furthermore, that person might allocate funds to protect his store, etc.

The fact is I agree that the knock-off market is bad, but to compare it to armed robbery is a stretch. If the guy was going to an NHL store and taking 18 jerseys at gunpoint, yes. But you have to differentiate between direct and indirect harm.

I'll add a couple more notes.

- A store that's robbed normally has insurance that covers such events, so outside of whatever expenses go into that, it's not like there's a literal loss of everything associated with a robbery.

- Add in the retailers who get hammered by the bootleg market. There are an awful lot of small sports apparel businesses that have seen upticks in all apparel and merchandise sales, and yet the bottom line is far less than it was. That's directly attributed to loss of jersey sales, which in itself is a direct result of bootlegs. There was an article in an Ottawa paper around Christmas, spotlighting a retailer whose non-jersey sales were up 20% in a year, but his overall sales were down 80% in a year when the Senators unveiled a new alternate jersey.