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Funny read on fakes


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Fellow board members, if you have some time and want to have a laugh, you can read this email exchange I had with someone last year trying to peddle some fakes to me and my friends. You have to start at the bottom and read "upwards/backwards". I've blocked out the email addresses, to protect the innocent/guilty. To help you out, Tim is me, Daryn is the fraudster.

Perhaps this helps out some of the new jersey hobbyists.

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Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?‏

23/11/2010

Reply ▼

XXX

To XXX, XXX

Trust me, if I was trying to insult you, it would be a lot worse than callin u a clown.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:42:26 -0700

I'm not going to lower myself to hurling insults as you have so, if by insulting me several times you consider that some kind of victory, good on you. Whatever it takes to float your boat.

Hopefully, you spend your time today on something a whole lot more productive than this drivel.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:33:56 -0500

You're a clown buddy. At least you're right about one thing, it was entertaining for me dealing with your ignorance. A lot of other people enjoyed it too.

And btw, it's not a debate when only one party brings forth an argument and supports it. This was purely a verbal stomping.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 22:17:02 -0700

LOL. OK, whatever. You get your jerseys from wherever you feel comfortable and I'll do the same.

Thanks for the debate, it was entertaining if nothing else.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:04:14 -0500

I haven't provided any reasoning as to why these fakes are an issue? Are you for real? You and your friend are offering jerseys for sale and you think it's not an issue they are fake? Ok, I can get you a watch, and it will say ROLEX on it. I can sell it to you for $500, and it looks exactly like the ROLEX in the watch stores that cost $5,000. Tell me if you want it or not. It's a deal because it will only cost you 1/10 of what you pay in the stores!

For someone who supposedly has no vested interest in these fakes jersey, you sure are defending them to no end. Two reasons that I see why you would do this. One, you are an accomplice to this scam (Yes, it's a scam when you are selling fakes. Try telling the police or a court of law it's not.) Two, you are justifying it to yourself who basically just pissed away $100 each on a fake jersey. Your so-called buddy got those at a fraction of the $100 he's charging you. I would feel like a fool after finding this out. Don't worry, the lesson I gave you is for free.

By the way, if you still haven't figured out any of the reasons that I've put forth, here's a quick recap:

- You are not being honest in what you're selling. Just because you say you don't care, doesn't mean a consumer doesn't care it's a fake. In fact, quite the opposite.

- Quality is not good. You say you're not a jersey enthusiast, so how can you make any claims on how great you think they are? Like I said, I'll put mine up against your garbage any day of the week.

- The list of people on the original email distribution are people that I've played hockey with for a long time. Some I know casually, some I am very good friends with. I am educating them on what a real vs fake jersey is, so even if they are willing to spend their money, they are making an informed decision. But at least I've done my part to protect their interest.

You should probably consider stopping right here. I don't know what type of relationship you have with Robert (his cousin Phil is good buddy of mine), but after this fiasco, you don't look so good.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:43:11 -0700

You still haven't provided any reasoning as to why these "fakes" are an issue. Of course I haven't tried to refute anything because I don't really see the problem. A jersey is a jersey, if the quality is there, then what is the problem?

Obviously we disagree so I really have nothing more to say. I am not trying to make a business of selling these jerseys, I was just doing somebody a favor.

If in your book this makes me a liar, it is best we don't know each other.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:25:11 -0500

Let's see here. I've provided PLENTY of proof that you, or your friend, are clearly peddling fakes. You have not attempted to refute this evidence, namely the informtion on the official NHL website. So it is what it is, I'm 100% correct in my assessment. You've only focused on quality, which if I was able to show you, you'd be dead wrong as well.

Furthermore, I consider a lot these people my friends who I play hockey with for over 15 years. I actually had some people reply positively to my original reply to you, saying it was good that I was looking out for them. So what is the point you ask? Need I explain more? If you choose to not be upfront with the authenticity issue, you are lying to all of us.

Besides, I don't spend $300 on a jersey. Never have in all my years of collecting. I can get a real pro Leafs jersey for $68 right now, last season's version.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:56:12 -0700

Tim, you don't know me so, calling me a liar is out of line.

I was trying to do two favors - helping a friend sell a jersey and giving a Leaf fan an affordable jersey. If there was a question with the quality, I would never have even emailed Robert. Call it a "fake" or a "knock off" or whatever you want, the fact is, it is a very nice jersey. It is not my import business so I don't really know or care the status of the jerseys. Good quality is all I care about and these jerseys are fine. My friend never called them fakes or knock offs - he called them jerseys.

$100 doesn't grow on trees but neither does $229 or $380.

Honestly, what difference does it make to you if a jersey comes from the NHL shop or directly from the factory?

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:24:18 -0500

The point is that you're not being upfront with the people you're trying to sell to. It's pretty simple. Withholding information is pretty much like lying. Like I said, people can spend their money however they like as long as they know what they are buying.

Robert, being a "neutral" third party in this, wouldn't you like to know before you dropped $100 on a jersey? $100 is still $100, money don't grow on trees.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:14:47 -0700

I think you're missing the point.

Who cares if it is a "fake"? If it is excellent quality and cheaper than the stores what does it matter? Why do you care if the NHL gets their cut?

If you want to pay $300 or whatever it is, go ahead. As I said, the jersey I have looks great and I have an extra $130 in my pocket. And, by the way, nobody ever asks me if it is fake - nor would I care if they did.

Pwned? No, I would just rather invest my money in my family than give it to the NHL. If you prefer to spend more for your jerseys, that is your right. I don't see the point.

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:08:09 -0500

Here's the NHL shop link.

http://shop.nhl.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3169596&f=PAD%2FTeam%2FToronto+Maple+Leafs&fbc=1&fbn=Team%7CToronto+Maple+Leafs

Based on your pictures, it's clearly a fake because your jerseys have the same neck tags as the replicas, grey border wth black in the centre. Replicas no matter where they are made don't have a fight strap in them. But the fact that they DO have a fight strap as you say clearly tells me they're fake. The pro jerseys for $299, which has the fight strap, has a black border neck tags.

Let me "educate" you some more. Do you have a size 48 that you can sell me? If you do, it's a FAKE!. Check the NHL website and the pro jerseys they are selling. RBK does not sell a size 48. It goes from 46 to 50. So choose to believe what you will, I think the NHL website says it all for me. If I was a 15 yr old kid, I'd tell you you just got "pwned".

From: XXX

To: XXX; XXX; XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:43:03 -0700

To each their own.

Tim, I am no expert and I am not the one importing the jerseys so I can't comment on some of your points. All I know is that, I have bought one and have compared it to what I see in stores and I am quite satisfied. Pro, replica, I don't really know or care; I just know that, at the end of the day, my jersey looks great and I have an extra $130 in my pocket.

Robert, I apologize for how this turned out; I had no intention of having a debate with anyone. I am sorry so many people were copied on the banter.

Photos attached if anyone is interested.

Daryn

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:56:41 -0500

If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times. This is exactly the same speech anyone would make in trying to pass off their jerseys as authentic, that they're made of the same quality or even better than what we find in the local shops. What bullsh!t. What is a fake you ask? It's exactly how your "friend" got these jerseys. Do you think that Reebok allows shops or wholesellers to bypass the normal distribution channels and get these jerseys at a fraction of the regular price? I don't think so. These are merely a poor knockoff of an official jersey, and by official, I mean REAL.

You are comparing these "pro-style" jerseys (it's pro-style because like you said, it has the fight strap) to those at the ACC, which are official replicas (which does not have a fight strap). Replicas are much less expensive, and therefore, the quality should be inferior to a pro jersey. The fact that you are saying it's of the same quality shows the lack of quality in your fake jerseys. If you want to compare it to a real pro jersey, there is simply NO comparison. I will at anytime put up my pro jerseys against these fake jerseys. But it will cost you $300 for a blank, while a replica will cost you roughly a third of that. I doubt you have actually come across real pro jersey, because if you did, you would change your tune pretty fast if you were being honest to youself.

Having tags and looking identical to the real thing, does not make it real. This applies to so many other things, not just jerseys. Pleading ignorance to the true nature of these jerseys is another typical response, because if you discovered the truth, it would make it tougher to sell it to unsuspecting people if you had a conscience. So they spin a story that it's from the same factory so they must be ok.

With that being said, people can spend their money however they like. If you know it's fake and you're willing to pay $100 for it, instead of the $180 for a Phanuef replica jersey, or $380 for a Phanuef pro jersey, that's your choice and it's easy to see why they would do it. Again, my main point in all this is to help educate the people in what they're buying.

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:26:19 -0700

Hi Tim,

The jersey is manufactured in the same factory that supplies the NHL and its clubs with their jerseys for retail sale. If by "fake" you mean it isn't of the same quality that is incorrect. The quality of the jersey is the same as what you find in retail stores. The difference between these jerseys and the ones you find in stores is that this one was shipped directly from the factory to my friend who resells them at a low margin instead of to the NHL who then marks them up over 100%.

Ultimately, the jersey is the same or better quality that what you will find in stores (if it is important to you, the jersey has the tie down strap) without the NHL's markup. It has the NHL/Reebok tags on and looks identical to anything you would find in a retail store. The only difference between this jersey and one you would buy at ACC is the NHL/Leafs' profit margin. I am not an avid jersey collector as yourself so I don't know if this is considered a Pro jersey or a replica, I just know that the quality is excellent. This is not the poor quality stuff you can get off of eBay for $40; and anyone that is a Phaneuf fan would not be disappointed with this item. I am not trying to rip anybody off - I have purchased jerseys for myself and several friends from John and everyone is quite satisfied with the quality.

That being said, if it makes you feel better, you can pass this one by. I was just trying to do a Leaf fan a favor and help a friend sell an extra jersey he has. My friend has been importing jerseys like this for 6 years and has many satisfied buyers. Anything that is substandard quality he ships back to the factory.

If anyone purchases the item and is not satisfied with the quality, they can have a refund.

I appreciate your concerns Tim.

Thanks,

Daryn

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

CC: darynduliba@hotmail.com

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:55:39 -0500

I'd rather not get into a discussion regarding this because it's likely going to get ugly. But trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about, since I collect jerseys as a hobby. My point was simply to educate people who might be thinking about spending their money, and not knowing exactly what they're purchasing.

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

CC: XXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:28:06 -0500

Daryn,

Care to respond to the last person ?

Robert

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

Subject: RE: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:33:42 -0500

This is obviously a fake jersey. A 54 would be an Pro jersey size and not a replica jersey size, and they would retail for $300 blank if they were real. You can get a fake jersey on eBay for $40, so trying to rip people off for $100 is pretty low.

From: XXX

To: XXXXX

Subject: Toronto Maple Leaf Jersey - Anyone interested ?

Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 11:55:05 -0500

Hi Robert,

I have a friend who retails NHL jerseys and he has an extra Dion Phaneuf in size 54 (I believe that is XXL). It is white with the Leafs retro logo and the C on the front. Not sure if you or any Leaf fan you know would be interested in it - price is $100. This jersey sells in retail stores for $229.

Let me know if you know anyone that is interested.

Thanks,

Daryn

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pure ownage that read was. Everything in that was 100% accurate. Yea theres "nothing wrong" with selling fakes. Its only AGAINST THE LAW. What a tool.

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Did you know fakes support terrorism? It's the truth. I read an article a few years ago about how some groups make/sell fakes that were tied to terrorist groups, as a means of supporting their crime riddled lifestyle.

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Did you know fakes support terrorism? It's the truth. I read an article a few years ago about how some groups make/sell fakes that were tied to terrorist groups, as a means of supporting their crime riddled lifestyle.

Is that supposed to sound like that thing they used to show before movies about not pirating that said "You wouldn't steal a car, would you!?", "You wouldn't rob an old lady, would you!?"

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Haha! I was merely mentioning it as another point in an argument, like when the seller says "why pay more just so Reebok/NHL makes more money?"

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I thought folks on here would find this humorous. The person was just asking for it.

And another fun fact that I found out about afterwards, he's suppose to be a religious church-goer.

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I really enjoyed reading this spectacle of real life pwnage. Truly epic LULZ.

It's funny seeing the guy slowly try to save face, especially when he says he's done talking about it and then came back.

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:lol::lol::lol:

that was classic!!! Thanks for sharing!

Some of my favorite quotes were...

"Don't worry, the lesson I gave you is for free"

mwahahaha

"Tim, I am no expert and I am not the one importing the jerseys so I can't comment on some of your points"

yet he earlier said

"The jersey is manufactured in the same factory that supplies the NHL and its clubs with their jerseys for retail sale."

hahaha

he then says

"Who cares if it is a "fake"? If it is excellent quality and cheaper than the stores what does it matter?"

So he pretty much confessed they are FAKE

If in your book this makes me a liar, it is best we don't know each other.

hahaha, see ya later!

Priceless!

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oh, btw The Next One, I found this jersey for you... it's so worth it, think of the money you will save, can buy another jersey with the savings...

http://www.ecseller.com/15/productshow_4127.htm

Trust me, it comes from same manufacture as the NHL... they are in China right?

:lol::lol::lol:

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HAaah nice read!

I though I was the only one who used the "Rolex" example!

with my magik ninja powers, i decoded some of those X's

darynduliba@hotmail.com

:ninja:

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As they say in Germany, that guy is ein douchenbagen.

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

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Great read, kind of off topic, but if you like stuff like this check out dontevenreply.com, hilarious.

:thumbsup:

Only time in my life I laughed non-stop for 30+minutes straight (I first looked at it when Bissonnette posted it on Twitter). The only problem is the guy doesn't updat the site lol!

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:thumbsup:

Only time in my life I laughed non-stop for 30+minutes straight (I first looked at it when Bissonnette posted it on Twitter). The only problem is the guy doesn't updat the site lol!

Yeah, my favorite has to be either the concealed weapons one, or when he tries to sell Shaniqua an old Jurassic Park SUV.

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Yeah, my favorite has to be either the concealed weapons one, or when he tries to sell Shaniqua an old Jurassic Park SUV.

Sorry for hijacking the thread

My favorite is the XBOX "rectify" one

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with my magik ninja powers, i decoded some of those X's

darynduliba@hotmail.com

:stickhndl:

Haha, looks like I forgot to cross one email one. No big deal. :P

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