*Dumb Question Alert* Re: Facebook Groups

[mdwsta4]

1 hour ago, Schlepprock32 said:

That is pretty pricey.  Only way to get them is at their convention no?...not including Facebook and eBay.

Gamers go for sale every year through a specific person that gives people a heads up about them. Doesn’t make them any cheaper. Starting price is basically $800. With the trajectory of the Hawks over the last 5 years, the starting price really should be $400-500. No reason for such a price premium and there are never sales or discounts like most every other team does (even the Kings!).
Equipment sales are the same thing. $10-20 for socks when other team sales I’ve been to sell them for $2-5. Even the Caps equipment sale the year they won the Cup were selling practice jerseys for $25 and socks 4 for $10 (or was it buy one get one free? I forget but it was cheap as hell).

 

end rant 

[Devilsguy]

Looks like this argument has spilled over into a new post in the Dallas Stars game worn group last night / this morning.

In my opinion, I would prefer people to not strip game worn jerseys.  Team-stock blanks and GI's to me are fair game, and I think TC gamers are also largely fair game too.  However, I understand that Adidas has put a lot of replica/authentic jersey collectors in a tough spot by denying them the opportunity to buy MiC Adidas jerseys at retail.

People stripping GI's and lesser known GW to recustomize into star players have been around forever.  However I think if we are able to pressure Adidas enough to make MiC jerseys available at retail I would guess around 75-80% of this problem will go away.  This issue really didn't explode until Adidas took over 3.5 years ago and most stripped gamers I see these days are Adidas.

[mfitz804]

I agree, and may I add, stripping any jersey is among the last things I want to do, and were retail blanks readily available, I would happily buy those and have them customized without the added hassle. 

The concept of stripping a game worn bothers me both from a perspective of ruining an artifact of the game, and also they are more expensive. I have a handful of Devils warmup worn jerseys, and none of them are the player I would choose. But, because they were more expensive than a blank jersey would be, I don’t want to strip them so I keep them the way they are. 

All of the above notwithstanding my recent switch to goalie jerseys, which weren’t available at retail anyway. 

[Van67]

The topic spilling over to the Stars game worn group is without a doubt because of this jersey...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dallas-Stars-Jamie-Benn-Team-Issued-Jersey-Adidas-Size-56-Made-In-Canada/184649123563?hash=item2afdf206eb:g:gXYAAOSwMZdgGys1

This jersey has wear, team repairs and the seller describes it as "Shows signs of game/practice use." Practice use? [Insert Allen Iverson here.] Obviously this is a camp and/or game worn jersey (likely exhibition games) stripped, re-customized with Jamie Benn's name and number and misrepresented as a jersey issued to him. This is all kinds of wrong and it's why some game worn collectors would call my Adidas MIC jerseys "frankensteins" or as some put it in that discussion last week, just as bad as fake jerseys (which is absolutely insane). Small consolation that the price reflects that the jersey was absolutely not issued to Jamie Benn, but it's still a blatant misrepresentation. 

I will echo the opinion that game worn jerseys shouldn't be stripped. I do understand completely if someone who is a no-name to us, might one day down the road, want the jersey he wore for his handful of NHL games. We see it occasionally on the FB groups and the effort to find someone's jersey for him is a good part of the community. Game issued jerseys however? Fair game to do whatever the f*** you want with (I have two more arriving today and yes, I'm stripping them tonight!) and when people like the seller of that Benn jersey come around, torch em.

As for Adidas (also have to include the league with them), when the argument from their side is that it's not worth the cost to make enough MIC jerseys for retail sales, based on how many they feel fans will buy, there's no amount of pressure from people like us that will get their attention. It sucks, but it's reality.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Van67

[Schlepprock32]

I think the Adidas contract runs out at the end of the '23-'24 season, so hopefully whoever takes over after that will make their MiC's more available to avoid this....as well as hopefully the excess Adidas inventory will take up 3 racks at your local Ross for everyone to enjoy.

[mfitz804]

28 minutes ago, Van67 said:

The topic spilling over to the Stars game worn group is without a doubt because of this jersey...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dallas-Stars-Jamie-Benn-Team-Issued-Jersey-Adidas-Size-56-Made-In-Canada/184649123563?hash=item2afdf206eb:g:gXYAAOSwMZdgGys1

This jersey has wear, team repairs and the seller describes it as "Shows signs of game/practice use." Practice use? [Insert Allen Iverson here.] Obviously this is a camp and/or game worn jersey (likely exhibition games) stripped, re-customized with Jamie Benn's name and number and misrepresented as a jersey issued to him. This is all kinds of wrong and it's why some game worn collectors would call my Adidas MIC jerseys "frankensteins" or as some put it in that discussion last week, just as bad as fake jerseys (which is absolutely insane). Small consolation that the price reflects that the jersey was absolutely not issued to Jamie Benn, but it's still a blatant misrepresentation. 

I will echo the opinion that game worn jerseys shouldn't be stripped. I do understand completely if someone who is a no-name to us, might one day down the road, want the jersey he wore for his handful of NHL games. We see it occasionally on the FB groups and the effort to find someone's jersey for him is a good part of the community. Game issued jerseys however? Fair game to do whatever the f*** you want with (I have two more arriving today and yes, I'm stripping them tonight!) and when people like the seller of that Benn jersey come around, torch em.

As for Adidas (also have to include the league with them), when the argument from their side is that it's not worth the cost to make enough MIC jerseys for retail sales, based on how many they feel fans will buy, there's no amount of pressure from people like us that will get their attention. It sucks, but it's reality.

Do you include camp-worn jerseys in the “never to be stripped” category?

[Van67]

4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Do you include camp-worn jerseys in the “never to be stripped” category?

No. Should have clarified that in my opinion I suppose. 

[Devilsguy]

Yeah that Stars jersey is definitely being misrepresented, but it reignited the argument about stripping gamers again.

While in a perfect world I would love for zero game worn jerseys to be stripped, we have to acknowledge that we don't live in a perfect world.  With Adidas throwing a wrench into the hobby the past 3.5 years, it has made this worse.  At the same time, we have to acknowledge that not every jersey can be saved.  While stripping gamers will be drastically reduced if Adidas makes MiC jerseys available at retail, there will always be some level of this happening.  What you see on FB and various forums are only the most fanatical portion of this hobby and many do not view these gamers as anything more than either expensive souvenirs or something they can turn into something they can wear.  Plus how many times have jerseys been lost to history because of the team themselves recycling jerseys?

Another point is that the back and forth on these posts seem also include issues with the Team Issued label.  I have to say that in the 10+ years of collecting hockey jerseys and the 8ish years of collecting game worn jerseys, I have never heard that label before until about 2-3 years ago.  Before that it was just either blank jersey or team pro stock jersey.  I think the term Team Issued is a bit of a way to glorify these and often lead to confusion with collectors between that and game issued.

[spudrock512]

Yeah, the term "Team Issued" was definitely a term that was developed because Adidas lack of selling the on-ice product at retail.  You could argue that same about Starter "Made in Berlin" vs El Salvador, but I don't really remember it really being a thing back then.

I guess look at it this way, Team Issued is a jersey that was made for that team to use during game play. Game Issued is a jersey that was made for that specific player to wear during game play, and of course game worn was worn by that player during a game. I see any conversion of a game issued or a game worn jersey to any other player than who it was designed to be used for, automatically changes that jersey to a Team Issued jersey.

While I agree that a game worn jersey should never be stripped, I don't have a problem with a game issued being converted.  Training Camp jersey - I guess I am ok because it wasn't worn in a real game.  I would say preseason worn is not ok.

Again, if Adidas would just make the MIC jersey available to the general public, this wouldn't be an issue.

Edited February 4, 2021 by spudrock512

[Van67]

The "team issued" term has been around for a while. Reebok 6100s without the retail neck tag is when I first became aware of team issued jerseys. Reebok team issued Edge jerseys also had no retail neck tag and brought in the reinforced fight strap. I do agree there is a difference between game issued and team issued. As far as Adidas goes, well, they're all at least team issued at this point.

One thing I've noticed since Adidas took over, is the acronym "MIC" is on a lot of sale listings for non-Adidas jerseys. Reebok did start the Made in Indonesia "authentic" garbage so the acronym does apply to them with relevancy... I'm talking about "MIC" as a selling point for old stuff. I recently got a Russia 2002 Olympics authentic jersey, and the seller made a point that it was "MIC". I got a decent price for it, so I held off being an a$$ and I didn't say "yeah, everything authentic was back then" lol.

[Devilsguy]

I have always heard pro-stock for team-owned blanks.  I only started seeing Team issued in the past few years.  Weird lol maybe I wasn't paying too much attention.

I still think team issued is a bad term for them.  As collectors, we can tell the difference but people coming into the hobby for the first time I can see them being confused.  The way I see it, while they were owned by the team they were never really issued to anything or anyone.  Issued is key term and I think that implies that the jersey had a specific purpose.  Pro stock to me sounds like it was owned by the team and that's about it, which to me is more accurate.

Yeah, MiC are overused.  I am seeing listings on ebay for 90's-era CCM replicas being called MiC's which while technically true, is not really what the terms was meant for.

[mdwsta4]

17 hours ago, Van67 said:

One thing I've noticed since Adidas took over, is the acronym "MIC" is on a lot of sale listings for non-Adidas jerseys

Yeah, this is really annoying. A cheap CCM replica from the early 90's may have been made in Canada, but it's not the same as an authentic CCM from that era. People either don't know, don't care, or simply want more eyes on their listing.

I wish the whole 'MIC' nickname never happened. People could have easily called them 'Adizero' and 'Indo-zero' in the same way people referred to Reebok's as Indo-edge vs 1.0 vs 2.0. I try to always say 'on ice authentic' since that's what it is.

[mfitz804]

I miss the days of fight strap = authentic, no fight strap = replica. Simple as that. 

[Van67]

Yup. I'm with you. "Authentic" just doesn't mean what it used to. In another FB discussion last week, I simply stated what I consider "authentic" to mean and several people argued with me that Made in Indonesia is "authentic, just not MIC authentic". Sad reality today is that "authentic" simply means not counterfeit. I'm starting to use the term "on-ice quality" to avoid confusing the kids in the hobby.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Van67 said:

Yup. I'm with you. "Authentic" just doesn't mean what it used to. In another FB discussion last week, I simply stated what I consider "authentic" to mean and several people argued with me that Made in Indonesia is "authentic, just not MIC authentic". Sad reality today is that "authentic" simply means not counterfeit. I'm starting to use the term "on-ice quality" to avoid confusing the kids in the hobby.

I use “on ice jersey” in conjunction with MIC. Sometimes I even say it was purchased from MeiGray, and then I describe that MeiGray handles the Devils game issued and used jerseys, to really drive home the point. 

[Devilsguy]

1 hour ago, Van67 said:

Yup. I'm with you. "Authentic" just doesn't mean what it used to. In another FB discussion last week, I simply stated what I consider "authentic" to mean and several people argued with me that Made in Indonesia is "authentic, just not MIC authentic". Sad reality today is that "authentic" simply means not counterfeit. I'm starting to use the term "on-ice quality" to avoid confusing the kids in the hobby.

I see this being used on ebay a lot these days.  I search "authentic devils jersey" and I get a ton of replicas in the results.

[thebiggoalie]

25 minutes ago, Devilsguy said:

I see this being used on ebay a lot these days.  I search "authentic devils jersey" and I get a ton of replicas in the results.

I search for “garbage”, and all of Fitz’s jerseys usually show up. 

[mfitz804]

32 minutes ago, thebiggoalie said:

I search for “garbage”, and all of Fitz’s jerseys usually show up. 

I search for "played out" and your jokes show up.  

[thebiggoalie]

32 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I search for "played out" and your jokes show up.  

TWSS

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, thebiggoalie said:

TWSS

She definitely did. 

[jsh139]

7 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I miss the days of fight strap = authentic, no fight strap = replica. Simple as that. 

You could probably put anything into this blank and I would agree with it. 

I miss the days of ___________. 

[Hockey Bob]

5 hours ago, thebiggoalie said:

I search for “garbage”, and all of Fitz’s jerseys usually show up. 

 

4 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I search for "played out" and your jokes show up.  

 

3 hours ago, thebiggoalie said:

TWSS

You guys crack me up 😆

[mfitz804]

25 minutes ago, Hockey Bob said:

 

 

You guys crack me up 😆

We are the Abbot and Costello of this board, but we collect goalie jerseys so it’s like two Abbots because he was goalie cut. 

[Hockey Bob]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

We are the Abbot and Costello of this board, but we collect goalie jerseys so it’s like two Abbots because he was goalie cut. 

So all I gotta do is start collecting goalie cut jerseys and I could be the 3rd Stooge!? 

[thebiggoalie]

17 minutes ago, Hockey Bob said:

So all I gotta do is start collecting goalie cut jerseys and I could be the 3rd Stooge!? 

Yeah, but you’re only a Schemp.