NYR Starter Jersey Help

[DC Red Wings]

Liberty jersey, size 52 for $100...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-York-Rangers-Authentic-Liberty-Jersey-Size-52R-Made-by-Starter-Perfect-/290792514965?pt=U_Hockey_Fan_Shop&hash=item43b495a595

[BanthaBeard]

Thought it best to keep this thread going rather than start a new one, as it's along the same lines.

I have a couple of Starter Rangers jerseys, 96/97 white and 97/98 Liberty that I want to get done up but I'm not sure what to do about this 'skinny' font that everyone refers too. I can see what is being referred to but are they from a different template that suppliers should be able to follow or was it design quirk that the customizer will have to try to match?

I have emailed Icejerseys to see if they can replicate the skinny font in the correct dimensions but am yet to hear back. If they can't do it then I'm not sure what to do as, being in the UK, I'm not sure I'm happy sending my jerseys to Cosby's when their website offers almost nothing in terms of info.

I guess the question ultimately is is it massively important to recreate the skinny letters, just as long as they are the right size?

[CJ Matthews]

It's only important if it's important to you. Cosbys does it the right way. I don't know the best way to ship, but if you're not comfortable sending it straight to them then you can always send it to a local member who would be willing to bring it in for you.

[Cygnus X-1]

I guess the question ultimately is is it massively important to recreate the skinny letters, just as long as they are the right size?

Depends on the individual. I got rid of a really nice CCM jersey done up by EPS b/c the font wasn't exact.

[LAK74]

I don't have a lot of experience at customizing the white 96/97 Starter, but I've done a good amount of research on the Liberty jersey customization. I have the feeling that Cosby might be the best place to get the 97/98 Liberty done, but I would not assume they'll get it exactly right without a lot of input and guidance from you. Cosby tweaked the fonts on the Liberty jersey throughout the years, and I doubt they would get every detail right unless you provide a lot of gamer photos and point out certain details to them. I myself have a 97/98 Liberty done by Cosby, and it's not exactly accurate.

It would take forever to describe all the differences in the Liberties from year to year, but in general the customization for the 2 Starter years (1996/97 and 1997/98) look markedly different from the years that followed (ProPlayer/Koho/Reebok jerseys). There are even some differences between the 2 Starter years. In general, the 1996/97's have letters with a more prominent-looking top red layer, while the 1997/98's have a slightly thinner red layer which gives the letters a paler, more skinny look to them. There are also some differences in the shapes of some of the letters. I suggest you try to get photos of the 1997/98 gamer of the player you want. If this is not possible, at least get 1997/98 photos of other players who have some letters and digits in common with the player you want. Of course if all this is too much trouble, you could just roll the dice and see what you get!

[LordStanley94]

they are a pretty old school shop that depends mostly on their regular clients and the typical garden crowd walking past on their way to and from the garden on game nights. as such they really don't really have much of a website. they are hands down the best place to go for rangers customization. they are also easy to work with and are very knowledgeable. call them up, ask for Jim, and explain what you want done and I'm sure he will get you taken care of. they have done over 50 rangers jerseys for me over the years and I haven't one complaint. that's a lot to say in this business. they will be expensive compared to eps or tts but if you care about your rangers jersey being correct it is worth the price. if your would like to see pictures of the starters they have done for me just let me know.

[akteon]

Just like was discussed in the EPS thread, not everyone has the same experience with customizers. I've had more incorrect jerseys that came from Cosby's than ones that were correct and I'll personally never severely overpay to use them for only a chance of having it done right. But that's just me.

As for the skinny font on the Starter Libertys here's the research I posted a little over 3 years back:

Here's 2 gamers from MeiGray from 1996-97 (first year of Liberty jerseys) notice the "R" especially:

(click images to enlarge)

Compare to this other MeiGray gamer from 1997-98, this is the only year of the thinner font.

(click image to enlarge)

In 1998-99 they wore the white liberty jerseys, going back to the thicker font. Obviously they had their own issues, as they weren't approved by the league to wear the 3 color names and switched to 2 mid season.

(click image to enlarge)

Finally starting in 1999-00 and running through end of the Pre-Edge era they stuck with the thicker font on the navy liberty jerseys.

(click images to enlarge)

[LordStanley94]

akteon... you had rangers jerseys done incorrectly by cosbys?

[cowboys]

Here is mine done up buy a good friend

http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/jdincflyers9/?action=view&current=004-17.jpg

[akteon]

I've had two Rangers jerseys that were incorrectly done by Cosby's, back when all I knew to look for was if the name was arched instead of a radial arc. Also I purchased a 2000 ASG jersey that they had customized for a friend that I had to strip.because it was incorrect. Throw in the fact that they don't offer competitive prices and are a pain to deal with from outside the NYC area, and I'd rather deal with EPS or another customizer.

I'm glad that it sounds like most people have had good experiences with them. My point was just that in this hobby, if you want it 100% correct, get a gamer, outside that all customizers have their ups and downs.

[LordStanley94]

akteon... do you by chance still have those jerseys they did incorrectly or a picture of them? I am very surprised that they would have gotten an older style rangers jersey wrong considering they would have been using the exact same templates that they used when they supplied the jersey to the team. I suppose if it was some really random off the wall player that they didn't bother to save the template of that would make sense but I don't know how much more off the wall you can get than the Paul broten and joby messier I asked them about last week and they assured me they still had those laying around.

[BanthaBeard]

That's a tremendous help, thanks guys. I'll give Cosby's a shout and see what they say. Ice Jerseys have come back to me and said that they can do it so I can always go there with specific instructions if Cosby's can't help me.

Akteon - When you say in your research that 1997/1998 was the only year of the skinny font are you only referring to the Liberties in your post? I thought the 1996/1997 whites and blues also used skinny letters.

I also have a couple of blank 6100 CCM and Koho jerseys that I want to get done but presumably those aren't an issue and can be done up in the current style.

I've just started replacing my replicas with authentics, so have only recently started to look properly into all this stuff, hence the probably quite basic questions. Until recently I thought the only thing to look out for on Rangers customization was the straight or arched name!

[akteon]

The two incorrect Rangers jerseys I had that came from Cosby's were a Shanahan and a Jagr, both 6100s. Both had font issues, especially with the A's. I also believe the Shanny had a font issue with the 4. Honestly, I wasn't trying to counter all the good work that others have gotten from them, just trying to say things do vary. You can't assume that any customizer is going to be 100% correct without being very precise about what you are expecting to get and holding them to it.

My research showed there was a lot of variation, especially during the Starter days, but the only true evidence of a "skinny" font was on the Libertys from 1997-98. I had always heard that there was one year that the Rangers didn't use Cosby's during the late 90's, stemming from the infamous Gretzky Liberty that was spelled wrong (Gerry Cosby was quote as saying they didn't have anything to do with it) however I believe here on the boards we determined that wasn't the same year as the skinny font. So I kinda gave up.

Anyway, I decided to try to be hip like all you dang kids and created a Pinterest board with all of the Rangers Starter Game Worn jersey pics I had bookmarked for my research: https://pinterest.com/akteon/rangers-starter-game-worn-jerseys/

[LordStanley94]

that's more understandable then considering that shanahan and jagr both played for the rangers after Cosby had stopped doing the lettering for the team. it is my understanding that 2003-2004, jagrs first season with the rangers, was also the first year that cosbys hadnothing to do with the lettering. it's important to note that with the skinny font, there will still be obvious differences amongst lettering width even between players during the same year. the letters were different in each name according to the length of the name. ie a vanbiesbrouck or a karpovtsev is going to have drastically different width letters than a lowe or graves of the same year.

[akteon]

I understand completely, the length of the name and the position of a given letter in the arched name will create differences.

What I'm saying is that I see a big difference between the 1997-98 Liberty font and all other versions of the Liberty font. I'm not seeing that drastic of a difference between any other years during the Starter era on the blue or white jerseys.

I don't doubt that you could even find variations between two sets of the same jersey for a given player in a single year from that era. To me the only variation that points to using a completely different "skinny" font is the 1997-98 Liberty. But I totally admit it's subjective.

[akteon]

Btw, I was searching for the info regarding when there was the Gretzky misspelling that Cosby's allegedly claimed to not have anything to do with and if it was the skinny font. Stupid me, I should have looked at the first page of this thread, that's where we already covered it

We know the skinny font was 1997-98, and the misspelling was 1997-98, but I think everything still points to Cosby's being the customizer then, with only 1996-97 being a possible year that Cosby's wasn't. Clear as mud, right?

[Cygnus X-1]

I have seen an odd variation on the blue/white Starters as well; The standard font seen on the CCM's worn, let's say in '94, and another, different font, especially noticable on G's and C's in player names. From time to time they pop up on eBay but I don't even try to figure that one out lest I go insane. I think the Rangers' font gained a tad bit of weight right around the time Cosby's stopped but definitely once Reebok and EGDE arrived.

[BanthaBeard]

Yeah, anything pre-2005 lockout seems to be a little thinner than what they are using now. I'll have a look at the images Akteon has put up and see if there is a particular way of doing those late nineties jerseys that is best, or at least most consistent for the time. The only really tricky one does seem to be the Liberty. Thanks for all the pointers.

One final question (at least for now), the arm numbers were always 4.5" on gamers before the Edge cut, right?

[LAK74]

The only really tricky one does seem to be the Liberty.

You got that right. If you can tell me which player you want to put on the 97/98 Liberty, I might be able to give you some pointers specific to the letters and numbers you will need.

[LordStanley94]

here's another thought... what if cosbys just didn't do the gretzky jerseys? perhaps being as he was a primadonna and needed the double hem logos and all that jazz, they just had the jerseys done elsewhere before being delivered? just a random brain storm I just had. I'll pose this question next time I go into cosbys.

[BanthaBeard]

Thanks. It's going to be a Graves, like a lot of my older jerseys.

You got that right. If you can tell me which player you want to put on the 97/98 Liberty, I might be able to give you some pointers specific to the letters and numbers you will need.

[LAK74]

I should have guessed from your username you'd put Graves on it, lol. It's amazing how hard it is to find good back shots of his jerseys from that time period. Best I can do for now is suggest you use that photo of the misspelled Gretzky jersey as a guide- it's the correct font, and half the letters of Graves' name plus his number are there. Also, here's a 97/98 LaFontaine with an A and a downward-pointing E:

Note that in the number 9, the upper right corner of the rectangular hole is clipped. (In 1996/97 Starters, that clip is on the lower left.) Also, be sure that the customizer avoids the post-Starter number fonts. Starting with the ProPlayer years, the gray drop shadow layer is really wide and gives the numbers a stubbier look when compared to the Starters. The white layer is just a bit wider, and the holes and notches in the numbers are much smaller, as in this Koho gamer:

If I find anything else I'll let you know.

[BanthaBeard]

You have an amazing eye for detail LAK74. The more I look at it the more I think I'd better try and get Cosby's involved as I bet Ice Jersey's template is the later Koho/Reebok font. As I'm in the UK it might have to be over email, so I should be able to provide several pictures as guides. Thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

[LAK74]

Why, thank you, and you're quite welcome. I guess I've been rather obsessive about learning everything possible about the Liberty fonts, as it is still one of my top 3 favorite designs of all time. I still haven't managed to get a Starter done 100% correctly, though- something always comes back wrong...

[akteon]

My personal pet peeve about the Start Liberty jerseys was that they used a different font for #5 than the home/away jerseys and even all the Liberty jerseys after that (including the white Liberty). The middle bar has a diagonal cut on the right hand side as seen in these pics (originally posted by Slime back in 2009):

I had always hoped that maybe it was just one of the two years of the Start navy Liberty jerseys that had the weird #5, so maybe my two jerseys weren't 100% wrong, but looking today on Getty, they had the weird #5 for both years.